Round edges

Raylectron (http://Raylectron.com) is a 3D rendering engine for Trimble Sketchup (http://sketchup.com)
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davicxc
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Round edges

Post by davicxc »

Is there an option to round edges in Raylectron?
Sharp edges make the image look fake and very detailed models make the process excessively slow.
Any tips?
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Re: Round edges

Post by Support »

No there isn't as it doesn't change the geometry. Do you have a screen shot of how fake it looks? Perhaps round the edges in Sketchup first. I always tell the designers to model as it would be in real life and the render will reflect this work.
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davicxc
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Re: Round edges

Post by davicxc »

In my studies to understand how to make rendered images more realistic, most of the instructions suggest:

1. Rounded edges: no matter how small the object, sharp edges make images less realistic.
2. Distorted shadows: the more solid, the less the feeling of reality.
3. Chaos in the scene: both in the shadows and in the organization of objects.
4. Illumination: countless explanations.
5. Lenses: Use lenses that approach everyday (30 to 60mm) and avoid excessive distortion.

This blog summarizes these points: https://blog.usejournal.com/5-reasons-w ... 20d8118023

Both Corona, Lumion and V-Ray have tools that help to work on these points.
In Raylectron, I have already applied points 2, 3, 4 and 5. It is important to note that the artificial lights in Raylectron make rendering extremely slow and the result is still not as satisfactory when compared to competitors.
However, at this point I would like to focus on that point on the edges (1). It would be a great addition to the render. I have been a Raylectron user since 2017 and would like to see improvements like this.
And thanks for the always good service.
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Re: Round edges

Post by Support »

With the model being triangulated to begin with, it will never look 100% like real life because no matter the render engine you use, triangles are flat and it's surface shape is approximated. Now, there is nothing perfectly sharp, not even a razor blade, you look at one under a microscope and it is rounded to some degree.

Raylectron does not round edges because it's up to the user to apply the amount of roundness for a particular edge, all in Sketchup. The more your Sketchup model is made according to real life, the more real it will be in Raylectron.

Artificial lights in Raylectron works just as real life. Other renders uses shortcuts to produce their results and if you compare for example vray and Raylectron, look at the corners and you'll see what I mean, corners in vray are black fuzzy and in Raylectron, they are as they appear in real life.

vray and others expect you to place invisible lights (big rectangular ones) in order to illuminate the scene. We don't do that in real life and Raylectron was designed for real life models, not for fake and quick renders. Shadows in Raylectron are as they would be in real life. The smaller your light source, the harder the shadows and the bigger your light source, the softer the shadows.

As for cameras, we expect the user to use the default of FOV=35 because that's what our eyes are and for this reason, Raylectron make use of section planes so that you can place the camera outside a room for example so you can view the room as your eyes see it in real life (the section cuts does not cut the wall in the render, it ONLY affect the camera). Placing the camera in a corner of the room and jump up the FOV to have wide angle of view isn't realistic at all.

In short, competitors uses approximations and shortcuts to produce a result that for the untrained eye, looks beautiful. Raylectron was designed to reproduce real life and as such, real life isn't all that beautiful compared to most renders, real life doesn't look dreamy. Lumion is game engine, looks really good but fake however, you have to use materials from photographs to make it look more "real".
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davicxc
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Re: Round edges

Post by davicxc »

When that topic was opened, I would to discuss only what you mentioned in the first and second paragraphs and to seek solutions for my needs and other professionals. I am not comparing renderers for any other reason.
About your placements:
1. "With the model being triangulated to begin with, it will never look 100% like real life"
We don't expect that. The reason we use the software is to represent our work in the best possible way and not to look 100% real.
As an end user, I don't know (and you can't expect that) how the "shortcuts" you measure are made. If it makes my job more attractive to the client, it interests me.

2. When you suggest that the model is "the problem", I need to repeat: increase the model details makes render even slower and this is not always the best option.
We will never make a building with rounded edges. It is not viable. If this can be done with a software quick tool, why not?
Another example is a Raylectron grass tool that demands too much from the processor that makes its use uninteresting. An infinite v-ray grass tool was designed just for that reason.

3. When you say, "Raylectron is designed for real-life models, not for fake, fast renderings".
Dude! Time is money! And yes, we need fast renderings. And the results will not be necessary fake. You have a lot of positive points of view, but this is definitely not one of them.

4. About the cameras, it was not an argument because it works very well.

5. Artificial lights is a complicated issue. I agree when you say that they reproduce the real in Raylectron. However, they are still not 100% functional on Raylectron and they consume too many resources. Lumion does look more fake, however, production time is extremely fast. But I don't use it for other reasons.

The topic turned out too long, fled on purpose and without a solution. But I would like to make this clear: I am not a hater. On the contrary. I spent my time here because I believe in this project and I hope this software is getting better and better.

Thanks
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Re: Round edges

Post by Support »

I get what you are saying and that's why there are software like Lumion and Twinmotion which will give nice results and fast. Raylectron wasn't designed for this, it was designed for another reason, otherwise, we would have use The Unreal engine and do like everyone else. The grass in Raylectron was made as a general purpose grass/hair for like carpets and a bit of grass, Skatter is what should be used instead for landscape and is compatible with Raylectron.

Slow render means more realistic but in your case, it has to be fast and not that accurate. We've made the "Grain free" rendering for that reason, perhaps not as fast as a game engine but it all depend on the need, speed vs quality. It's not practical for us to make one that does all nor would it be for the end user.

As for the rounded edges, I get the point, but it's only relevant when viewing up close. In this case, you design a vase for example, you need to round the edges, it will not make Raylectron render slower.

What do you mean lights in Raylectron are not fully functional??? They consume nothing so I', guessing you are not creating them properly maybe?

Thanks foe sharing your thoughts on all this and your needs. We do not ignore this.
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