Artificial Lights and ceilings

Raylectron (https://Raylectron.com) is a 3D rendering engine for Trimble Sketchup (https://sketchup.com)
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

Well i have my artificial lights in place, but i was expecting some "bounce" to my ceiling to somewhat illuminate that. Also, i'm not seeing any reflection in my glass, and i have verified that they are facing the correct way.

i decided to make this it's own thread as i did not want to clutter the sticky.

I'm wondering if this is a material problem (need to assign everything a tiny bit of gloss?) or what. Input appreciated as usual! :)
Attachments
interior view.jpg
interior view.jpg (74.43 KiB) Viewed 40640 times
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

WOW, this looks nice, even withtout the "bounce".

You need to "Enable shadows" if you use Path tracing, or, "True shadows" if using Raytrace.
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

For the glass, make thenm transparent so they can be more reflective, and with a light color. Or, do not set it as glass and set the reflection value.
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

Ok, i made the glass 100% reflective, turned on shadows (who would have thunk?) and then set my light to be a color (255,254,232).

It's rendering now, taking alot longer (4mins 167 samples) and its half pixelated. very strange. but i guess that's how it's generated.

it's still crunching away.
Attachments
interior view 02.jpg
interior view 02.jpg (207.84 KiB) Viewed 40635 times
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

If using Path tracing, make sure to enable "Direct illumination" or you'll be waiting a long time!
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

Support wrote:If using Path tracing, make sure to enable "Direct illumination" or you'll be waiting a long time!
oh crap.
lol :) thanks!
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

Ok, this took longer - but it definitely looks better.

11m 15s - 85 samples.

working on it, and learning a lot. I used a refraction IOR of 3 for my glass and it seems to have helped alot.
Attachments
interior view 02.jpg
interior view 02.jpg (117.38 KiB) Viewed 40630 times
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

It sure looks really nice, and I like the model too! For the glass, are they paper thin or did you give them some volume, like 1/4" thick? I would do that if not, and group them, and set the glass material to the group, so you don't have to do it for every face (front and back)!
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

BTW, the triangular shape on the ceiling, is that how it is in Sketchup too?
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

My door is a "unit". The glass panes are not inside the model. i can change that. Currently both faces are painted with the glass texture. I believe the glass is set to 1" thick. It would have been double insulated glass. so maybe i need to offset each face in 1/4" again for 4-faces total?

Thanks for the compliment. This is another house were working on and we'd like to use some of the images i can render out (now that we purchased the software) for marketing materials.

I applied a tiny bit of shininess to the paint. It's weird to me... it seems like the minimum is "1.0002927" yet, i can set it to "0". Is "0" and "1.0002927" the same in regards to the way the program interprets the settings?

I'm debating doing one with the sun off and sky set to something very small... like .25 to get an "at dusk" feel.

As for the triangle... Yes, it's like that in skethcup. we change directions in our wood pattern. I need to go back into sketchup and draw in the trim boards. They are a tad bit darker. There is a bit of an odd reflection in the image by the light at the triangular joint. I pointed at it with a green arrow. The white lines show the pattern of the wood. But i just figured it was how the light was bouncing around in there.
interior view 02 overlay.jpg
interior view 02 overlay.jpg (130.44 KiB) Viewed 40628 times
*edit for clarity...

The door assembly is a Component. inside that assembly are window components, and door components. Inside of each of those components are the glass panes. They are just planes. They are not a components within the Door/window component.
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

oh ok, I thought it was a bug in Raylectron!

For the glass, did you apply the material to the back face as well? I mean, one glass of 1" thick has 6 sides, but each side has front and back, so you need to set the material on 12 faces! That's why I group all the faces first, without any material on them, and then apply the material to the group, this way, it does all the faces, and front and back too.

The shiny number is an IOR value, and must be larger than the air IOR value, which is 1.0002927. zero mean it's off. We are working on changing that to a more friendly way! You could use reflection instead, say, 0.1 or 0.2

"dusk", I would use an environment map, and set its power in the Render settings to make it darker. Then use the Path tracer with Artificial lights and Environment map, both together, and it would look really nice! But you can do as you suggested, just the sky, but the env map would provide clouds and whatever else.

This is a really nice model. You're a very good designer!
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

Hm....

My glass panes... There are only 2 planes. A front and back plane. I paint the "sides" of the glass like the window frame. So my glass is literally just 2 panes, with 4 sides. Perhaps that is part of my problem.

I'll look into the environmental map.

And thanks for the compliment :) However, I'm not an architect/designer I'm just a sketchup modeler and drafter :P. I drew all the CDs for the house, but i can not take credit for the design... that was my boss! :)

i loaded a 360 panorama, but i guess i need to find one that has more sky than ground. I was unable to Get it to "raise" up. to show more sky. I could only pan left and right.
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

You did a nice job anyway.

The way you did your glass is proper. As long as all 4 faces of the 2 planes have the same material, and the back face of both are facing each other (facing in).

For the env map, take a look at these...

http://www.openfootage.net/?cat=15

and get the HDR un-compress, full size, 100mb+, not the jpg. And you'll see how nice they are. There are many to get on that page and the next few pages too.
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

Yeah, i was browsing them earlier. I found one i liked, but the angle was off too much, you could see the grass above the railing. lol.

thanks again for your help!
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

oh, but you can change that. When viewing the env map, you can rotate it left/right with the mouse. And if you want a fix position, go to the View menu, Rotate env map, then deselect "Follow camera".
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

I have a bunch of half maps that works nicely, which ones do you like? I'll post them. I can't remember where I got them!
Attachments
HalfEnvMaps.jpg
HalfEnvMaps.jpg (161.4 KiB) Viewed 40625 times
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

image file name search for the win!
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthr ... 77365cac3d

found them here :)

thanks, i like alot of them!

do they load in just like an environmental map?
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

i understand how it located the environment map now vertically... it's based on the horizon line. My problem is that i need to lower the horizon plane artificially.

i suppose the only option would be to push my model higher in the sky.
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

hm well i say that, but hen i tried "Sky_povray" and it went way below the horizon line. so i'm stumped as to how it's locating it vertically.
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

Nice catch on the search :D

Can you try this new version?
Attachments
Raylectron.exe
(7.26 MiB) Downloaded 1519 times
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

Sure. I downloaded it. It says I'm now on version 2.56

I can now pan vertically and adjust i beyond where it was locked into. This is nice! Thanks!

since i now have a limited understanding of how environmental maps work - i have a few questions.
You had mentioned in another thread there was a size restriction on pixels. Is it 2:1?

I noticed that when i pan way up i get a pinch effect. it looks like it's taking the entire map and rotating it around me. So it may be to my benefit to Photoshop these files (Add white above the top perhaps?) so i can manipulate my sky line. For example, i'm way zoomed in. if i was looking to see more of my sky, i think i need to fix the aspect ratio to do so. But then again, my limited knowledge of environmental maps may be misleading me.
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

Yes, they are 2:1 or close to that. It's normal you get that pinch effect because when you actually take 6 shots (with an 8mm lens) horizontally at 60 degree intervals to get the full 360, the 90 degree axis (the very top and bottom, axis of rotation) are not very detailed in the shots. It's like trying to assign a material to a sphere, the poles always look pinched.
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

Ok.

So if i wanted to use one of these sky maps, i still load it in like it's an environmental map - right? then i pan around and locate it?

Do you know how would i would manipulate the image if i wanted to see more of sky and clouds (zoom the sky out a bit)?

My attempts at modifying the image failed me pretty badly. i got very different results every time. :P
User avatar
Support
Site Admin
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:49 am

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Support »

any of those sky maps are half maps, they only contain the sky, not the ground. The one on OpenFootage are full maps because they include the ground.

The reason they look so zoomed in is because of the resolution of the map. The fish-eye lens used must have been 10mm or even 12mm as oppose to 8mm or better yet, 6mm. So if you take a panorama using 12mm, object are closer, and even closer when unfolded, but at 6mm, they are very far, and not too far when unfolded. If all this makes any sense?

Now, if you want skies only, then you need skydome maps instead, then the quality is better when looking up rather than horizontal. Here are some skydome maps...

http://www.tutorialsforblender3d.com/Te ... ome_1.html
Your support team.
https://SoftByteLabs.com
Dknight
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Artificial Lights and ceilings

Post by Dknight »

I think i understand.

There is no real way to adjust it in Photoshop to get what im looking for.

The Skydome are spot on what i was thinking though. I'll give those a go. I'll start looking for some even higher resolution ones.

Thanks again,
as always your support is incredible!
Post Reply