Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Raylectron (https://Raylectron.com) is a 3D rendering engine for Trimble Sketchup (https://sketchup.com)
Dknight
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Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

So I'm working on a rendering and I'm a bit unhappy with the brightness under the porch. If i adjust the exposure, gamma, or tone mapping i seem to blow it all way too bright.

Should i install some ceiling lights? I'm concerned those will over illuminate the porch (as my testing had started to do).
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

I would use the Brightness setting alone, this one will lighten the shadows too. Or, use Tone Mapping and set the BR value to -3 or more, then set the LA value to brighten the shadows.

I see that you have a background image. Did you set it as "Background" in the Raylectron material editor so it does not cover the sky?

Also, I think the sun is not bright enough.

But in real life, it would be that dark because of all the dark wood you have, here are some real pictures showing how dark it is on a sunny day...

Image

Image
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Dknight
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

Hey,

yes the background image is set to background.

I'm currently using a 1:1 sun/sky setting.
Adjusting the "Br" and "la" has resulted in better results...

I'm hovering over those pieces now, but it has not told me what those settings are. I noticed that pumping up the LA gives a huge amount of .. vibrancy to the colors. I'll have to tone them down in Photoshop.

And i understand what you mean about "Real life". but it doesn't look as good as having some light on the subject in this rendering.

I'll see if i can pull down the vibrancy in Photoshop now.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

I don't quite understand the Tone mapping CA and LA settings myself, but LA stands for Light Adaptation and CA stands for Color Adaptation (whatever these means).

I basically play with all the settings until I have it look the way I like, and I've never needed Photoshop to do it because all those settings will do it.

Here's some facts...

Intensity: this one raise everything by that ration, not just shadow, not just bright spot, but everything.

Exposure: Brighten the shadows while trying to keep the bright areas down.

Brightness: Brighten the bright spot while trying to keep the shadows down.

One thing I do with Tone mapping is if I set LA = 1, then I compensate for the vibrant colors by setting the Gamma = 1 and play with the Saturation in the negative value and increase the Intensity a bit.
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Dknight
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

Those are good bits of info. I had been doing the same.

Additionally i was using almost identical settings except i only added .3 to the LA. I felt it was too "rich" or "vibrant" to go higher. adding gamma back in cuts it down a little.

i'll keep playing and let you know!
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

Have you tried it with an environment map such as this one...

http://www.openfootage.net/DLM_Pro/download.php?277 (you'll need to enter the captcha)

and rotate it in a way to get the sun in the right angle? It'll give you a WAY more realism to your render because of all the shades, sun, sky, clouds, grass, houses etc. surrounding your model.
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Dknight
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

ill check it out. i've had no luck with them to this point.
(finding ones that work)
Dknight
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

where did you get this one?

it seems dark, but the layout is probably good.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

oh, they are the BEST to use! I got it from this site...

http://www.openfootage.net/?tag=hdri&paged=2 the 6th down.

When you go to File / Load Env Map and select it, it ask if it is gamma 2.2 corrected, say yes, because they are.

The use path tracing with Env Map as the only selection, and turn on Tone Mapping with all settings to zero. This will give you an outstanding render, and even better when you tune the settings. If you take a look at the Render gallery under Env Map Renders only, you'll see how nice they look.

I don't know why you have a hard time with them, because they are so easy to use. When you open an Env Map, the settings are set for it so you don't have to do anything. Except maybe rotate (left-right) the map in the viewer to position the sun.

Here is that same env map used on a car render, nothing else in the model except the car, all settings to zero, look how nice that came out, your house will look just as good (click the image to view it full size)...
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

I forgot to say, I like this env map and use it all the time because it was shot in the middle of the field, and it's big, so there is nothing nearby to interfere with the model, like the cars above, they sit on the env map grass, and Raylectron shadows the grass on the map as well.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

i had a hard time finding one that worked for us... landscape wise.

i threw this one in and the lighting is very off. I'm playing withe settings but the color gets wonky pretty quickly.

This one does work landscape wise.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

Here's a house (only the house) with that same env map...
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

Dknight wrote:i had a hard time finding one that worked for us... landscape wise.

i threw this one in and the lighting is very off. I'm playing withe settings but the color gets wonky pretty quickly.

This one does work landscape wise.
That's because the sun is on the backside. Go to the Env Map viewer and drag the map left-right until you see the sun, then rotate it again to where you want the sun to shine, in this case, move the map so the sun is behind you, not behind the model.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

Oh! so the sun isnt directed by the "Sun" in sketchup?

strange... how does it deal with time/date/angle and stuff like that?

we had a specific time/date/sunangle picked for our view...
Dknight
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

furthermore when i spin it, i don't like what i'm seeing there :-/
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

rotated it a bit... set intensity to 1.

gamma 1.4
brightness .1
br 3
la .5

having a much harder time to get the lighting right...
background is almost glowing now.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

Dknight wrote:Oh! so the sun isnt directed by the "Sun" in sketchup?

strange... how does it deal with time/date/angle and stuff like that?

we had a specific time/date/sunangle picked for our view...
Not with an env map since there is no way to know where the sun is, let alone changing the sun in the picture itself!

But, you can still use the env map with the sun and sky turned on, and turn off the env map but keep it loaded. The result may still be very nice, have to try that myself!
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

Dknight wrote:furthermore when i spin it, i don't like what i'm seeing there :-/
What you see may be the ground, because it folow the camera up and down. Just move your cam in the model viewer to view more the sky, then you can go to the env map viewer and you'll see more sky as well so you'll be able to rotate it left-right to the desired position, then move your cam back to what it was in the model viewer.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

Dknight wrote:rotated it a bit... set intensity to 1.

gamma 1.4
brightness .1
br 3
la .5

having a much harder time to get the lighting right...
background is almost glowing now.

ok, have you removed the background from the model?

Can you try with all zero for the settings, and then move your cam so you can see the sky, then in the env map viwer, rotate left-right until the sun is right in the middle. Then, in the View menu, select "Rotate env map" then on "Set", this will show you the degree it is positioned. Now add 180 to this number and this will move the sun right behind you, so the house will be illuminated where the cam points to. Then you can start playing with the settings to make it perfect.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

Yes, i had it rotated based on shadows in the environmental map.
I'm actually going to let it render out over night based on using the environmental background map but shadows and sun for the lighting.

thanks for the info again... I'll post results int he morning.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

I just gave it a try with the sun/sky env map not enabled but loaded, it shows the env map in the render, but I don't think it's using it in the shader.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

this morning i ran with the env map on a fast small render. 4 mins.

Tone mapping all set to 0 (as requested) and gamma 1. Sun orientation correct matching skymap.
rear_porch_08 env map.jpg
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This one i set the following (turned the map to see how shadows adjust as well)

BR 3
CA 1
LA .7
Gamma 1.6
rear_porch_08 env map with mods.jpg
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

The 2nd one looks nice. Gamma 2.2 should be used with this env map because it is already corrected for 2.2. But Ithink you're doing well.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Dknight »

ok i'll try it with 2.2

it was washing out my model badly... so i was very unhappy with the way it was coming out. but i'll try it with 2.2 before adjusting the other settings.
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Re: Best way to illuminuate under a porch (the ceiling)

Post by Support »

You know you can do all thses settings while it's rendering right? no need to stop it and restart from square one.
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