How to make realistic renderings

Raylectron (https://Raylectron.com) is a 3D rendering engine for Trimble Sketchup (https://sketchup.com)
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smartineau
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How to make realistic renderings

Post by smartineau »

Hi,
I am new to Raylectron and still havn't purchased my license yet as I want to make sure the software will suit my needs.
I am primarily going to be working on interior renderings, with some windows and was hoping to get some guidelines for render output settings for as realisistic renderings as possible.
I have already gone through the forum and watched the videos and havn't really found what I'm looking for.


-What are the best lighting combination for interiors and should I be using path tracing or photon tracing for realistic renders?
- The the render continue until I stop it? or will it eventually max out at the best quality? I'm not to concerned with time- but a guideline of what too expect would be great.
-Is there a suggested amount of samples that I should be aiming for?

I've set up my slaves and they seem to be working well so far. I really appreciated the forum feed on guidlines on who to make your own materials- ie. shiny metals and floors. These general guidelines save a lot of time and allow me to focus on the design rather than making the material. I have to say I am happy with the software, it is easy to use, I'm just looking for some general guidelines (similar to the material feed) when setting up the renders.

I have attached a render I worked on today- I'm ok with the final product, I like the shower glass and mirror, but find it doesn't look very realistic.
There also seems to be some noise in the background.

The settings I used were:
This render was about 30 minutes
artificial light, sunlight and day light checked. (the sun was turned on in sketchup before I rendered)
Fast shadows was checked
direct illumination was checked.
Any thoughts on how to improve?
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Bathroom_model_test.jpg
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Re: How to make realistic renderings

Post by Support »

Hi,

First let me thank you for trying Raylectron. We'll do our best to answer every questions you have, as quick as possible.

I have sent you a PM (private message) with the latest v3 build of Raylectron. Many fixes and the UI is much easier to use! The Fast shadow setting in Raytrace mode has been improved to be much more realistic.

For speed, this is the order they perform (fast to slow)
Raytrace, Path tracing then Photon tracing.

For quality (best to worse)...
Photon tracing, Path tracing then Raytracing.

Raytracing does not do caustics created by water, glass and the like. It does not "bleed" colors like a red wall near a white wall. Shadows will not be as perfect, especially the "Fast shadow" setting. But, it is fast and the noise goes away quickly, and if every object have a least one direct light hitting, then it's even noise free faster.

Path tracing can do 50% caustics when using "Direct illumination" and full caustics when not using "Direct illumination". It does color bleeding and true (realistic) shadows. It is fully photorealistic in non direct illumination. It is also photorealistic in direct illumination except for caustics.

Photon trace is is like Path tracing without direct illumination, full caustics, color bleeding and photorealistic, but it's best to use this on scene where you are rendering the whole model, not just a room within a huge house for example.

To get photorealistic without any noise, a 6-8 hours render on a 3GHZ with 8 threads is what we've concluded. If you have slaves, then you can cut this time dramatically. If you have a total of 16 threads from 2 slaves, then it'll be noise free in 3-4 hours.

The best way to illuminate an interior is to do it as you would in real life. For example, a recessed light in the ceiling, set the light emitter angle to about the same as a real one, not just 180 degree, but 135 or even 90 (as it looks like that's what you did already). The color of the light is also of great importance. There is no such light (beside the sun) that emit pure white light. So it's best to make them a bit yellowish as a real light bulb. Pure white give you this cold render, hence not realistic.

The more lights, the more data for the render and the less noise. Especially in Photon trace mode.

Materials such as counter tops, toilets etc. which are white, should not be pure white, again, because there is no such thing as pure white, or pure black. Let me explain, pure white means it will reflect light energy at 100% and pure black will absorb light energy at 100%. if this would be the case in real life, you would never be able to wear black pants as they would absorb all light energy and get super hot!

So for white, it's best to make it just a bit gray, like 5%, and black, make it less black by 5% as well.

Mirrors are not 100% reflective, 96% is a good value for most mirrors. That's why when you look at a mirror from an angle they appear a bit cloudy. Same apply to glass and I set my glass at 99% transparent, again, no such thing as 100% transparent.

Shininess: faucets, chromes etc. I use a value of 1% to 10% and depending if the surface is smooth or not, I also use the roughness setting, especially for a bathroom window.

If you have followed the guideline on glass (do not make them paper thin) then you're good. Make sure the edges do not touch anything, leave a spacing like 1/64"

So with this said, for the design you posted, I would use Photon trace or Path trace with direct illumination as caustics will not be an issue here.

There is something else, you should use the XRay to render through the bathroom wall as oppose to remove the wall to have the camera to see the inside or setting the camera in a corner. If your wall is made up of 2 layers, set the Xray level to 2 and you can set back your camera to take a full view of the bathroom. Also, the render will be realistic since all the walls are in place as oppose to one wall being open and all reflections goes in the void of black space!

The lights intensity looks off to me. The ceiling light is too bright compare to the 2 lights on each side of the mirror? The faucet and towel holder not shiny enough? Toilet and tub and counter top too white and not shiny enough? The cabinet is too reflective? add a bit of roughness to it?

Perhaps more colors will also make it more realistic, everything is white or gray except for the cabinet. If there was blue towel on the holder, a plant in the corner, you know, like in most peoples bathroom! It's like taking a picture of the interior of a house without furniture, wall picture etc. it will not look so real either. But you are the designer, I'm only making suggestions, and your bathroom looks awesome already!

oh, you have Sun/Sky turned on, but there is no sun coming in, so I would just turn it off. If it's suppose to come in, then raise the intensity of the sun/sky, or lower the intensity of all the artificial lights. An environment map would be the best for realism because it contain clouds, trees, houses, you name it. Without, well, it's just the Sketchup ground and sky color, no shades nothing, infinity horizon!

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask more questions, I'd be happy to help the best I can. Screen shots are perfect to get me to understand your problems, thanks for posting one.
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Re: How to make realistic renderings

Post by Support »

Here is a render I did, 3 hours, Path tracing with direct illumination, artificial lights only, XRay Level=1. I only used an 8 threads PC and no slaves. No more noise in the shadows.
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smartineau
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Re: How to make realistic renderings

Post by smartineau »

Thank you so much for both the latest version and you helpful tips! The latest version has a much nicer UI!
I am working on a new rendering now with your advice & tips so we will see how it goes

Few more questions...

How would you recommend creating a stainless steel look? I was thinking of starting with a texture and adding a bit of reflection and shine?

Your example is very nice!! I really like how soft the lighting is. Did you only use the light above the vanity or are there additional lights outside of the view of the camera?

Does adding roughness add noise?

I really appreciate the feedback and I will send over some screenshots after I have played around a bit more.
Thanks!
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Re: How to make realistic renderings

Post by Support »

smartineau wrote:How would you recommend creating a stainless steel look? I was thinking of starting with a texture and adding a bit of reflection and shine?
I would use only "reflection", no shine. But indeed with a texture if don't want it to be mirror like.
smartineau wrote:Your example is very nice!! I really like how soft the lighting is. Did you only use the light above the vanity or are there additional lights outside of the view of the camera?
Thanks. I only used the light above the vanity, it is white with 5% yellow
smartineau wrote:Does adding roughness add noise?
No. Noise is mostly noticeable in shadowed areas. The less light, the less data the render has to work with and need to rely on indirect lighting from nearby objects and will take longer to converge.
smartineau wrote:I really appreciate the feedback and I will send over some screenshots after I have played around a bit more.
I'd like that. You're design is very nice.
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smartineau
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Re: How to make realistic renderings

Post by smartineau »

Hi,
Renderings are going well but I am running into some inconsistent issues with the rendering.

Here is what is happening..
I hit render from sketchup, open and load the 3D model directly into Raylectron. Check things out in model view, set my lighting settings and hit render.
My settings are generally, artificial lighting, sun+ day light on, true shadows and path tracing.

Here is where I seem to have the issues...its kind of hard to explain but I will do my best. I have included some screen shots to help.

Sometimes after hitting render the sample count will start within 30 seconds.. other times it seems to take minutes. Sometimes it will just stop rendering after 15 seconds, no sample count taken and no updated view available and I simply have to hit render again.

I always use my slave because i like things to go faster but the slave doesn't typically start right away. I usually have to wait until a few samples are taken, update the view and the slave will kick in. This is a little odd, but not a problem when it actually works.

What is weird is how sometimes after lets say 2 minutes of waiting and I still have no samples taken, I will hit "stop" update" and restart the render. This is when the slave will kick in, but the sample count is extremely high...like almost a million. And still no updated view... I'm not sure if there is something I am doing wrong, or if I have to be more patient? In writing this post, I have been rendering for 6 min, and the sample count is at 0/93,687,605, it says there is an updated view available so I hit it and nothing shows up, so I just continue the render. This is a problem for me because I need to see how the lighting looking before the render is complete and I can't wait 6 min each time for preview image! I am finding things to be a bit inconsistent and I see the potential in the software but I'm a bit frustrated. Hope this makes sense and you can give some advice.

Thanks
Sarah
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Re: How to make realistic renderings

Post by Support »

When using slaves, you have to be careful. When you click Render, the master will upload the files to the shared folder, then instruct the slaves to load the model. The load process will take just as long as it did with the master, then the render will start and will tell the master when there are frames available to view. Now, when you click Stop, the master send an abort signal to the slaves, and the slaves may not abort immediately, it may take a few seconds. But if you click render at that moment, it may screw things up and you'll have to exit the slaves and restart them. Another thing, do not click Stop while the slave is loading a model. It's best to leave it until it starts rendering then you can stop it.

I have 2 monitors, one for my master and one for the slave, so I can see the status of the slave before I do anything.

As for the number of samples, it's not suppose to be that high! That's because it's rendering nothing and goes around quickly. If your slave runs 8 threads, you should see 8 more available sample every x number of seconds, but not 1.4 million samples in 14 secs! When this happen, exit the slave and clear the shared folder so it can start from fresh.

If it starts within 30 secs, and other times it takes a minute, it might be because of the camera direction that may be pointing on many more reflective surfaces. The more reflection to more time it takes. But if it's not the case and you did not change anything, then I'm not sure what it could be. If you can PM me the .rof file along with the material folder (plus the ini file from doing a Save Settings) then I can run it here on the slave and do as you do see what it does, and if there is a bug, we'll fix it right away.
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Re: How to make realistic renderings

Post by Support »

I just noticed you said "true shadows" and "path tracing", but there is no such thing, "true shadows" only apply to "Raytracing". In the lighting options, there are 3 tabs, the one that you select and clicked Apply is what it'll use along with the settings in that tab. Setting in other tabs will not be used as they are only for the tab they are in. So if you use Path tracing, then you need to select "Direct illumination" and "Enable shadows".
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Re: How to make realistic renderings

Post by Support »

Another thing, you only have 4 lights, and at 960x406 resolution, it should take no more than 30 secs to get the first view.
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